WesWorld

Argentina has always planned to build a fourth Belgrano to equip a full squadron and thoughts are turning to the Treaty.

If Argentina does not join, or if she faces bigger potential enemies then the fourth will be a super type. 20m longer and with improved turbines and an extra triple turret replacing the aircraft facilities.

Project 321 'Super Belgrano', Argentina Light Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
11,495 t light; 11,974 t standard; 13,111 t normal; 14,020 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
703.60 ft / 688.98 ft x 65.62 ft x 20.34 ft (normal load)
214.46 m / 210.00 m x 20.00 m x 6.20 m

Armament:
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (6x3 guns), 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2,080 lbs / 943 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 9.71 ft / 2.96 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.24" / 57 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,968 shp / 70,100 Kw = 33.08 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,046 tons

Complement:
612 - 796

Cost:
£5.089 million / $20.354 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 266 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 2,863 tons, 21.8 %
- Belts: 782 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 726 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,299 tons, 9.9 %
- Conning Tower: 57 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,670 tons, 20.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,626 tons, 42.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,616 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,841 lbs / 9,453 Kg = 202.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.499
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (45 %): 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Stern: 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Average freeboard: 23.29 ft / 7.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.9 %
Waterplane Area: 31,295 Square feet or 2,907 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 550 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The aircraft facilities don't have any deck penetration. The space underneath them will contain turbines and boilers, probably the forward set of turbines. You'd be better off adding the extra turret aft and looking like USS Worcester.

I meant the turret is behind X and the superstructure and after funnel is moved forwards slightly and the aircraft catapult is removed to save weight and some deck space where the AA directors are to be.

Q turret will face forwards so the arcs will be limited but there should be enough arcs for the beams and some forward arcs. I'll post a picture soon.

I'd stick with the orriginal Belgrano layout (5x3) and slap on more armour and AA on a larger more roomy hull.

I agree with Wes and if you really want to make this one slightly different from the others, why not try 5x2 using larger caliber guns instead of the triple 15cm guns.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
I agree with Wes and if you really want to make this one slightly different from the others, why not try 5x2 using larger caliber guns instead of the triple 15cm guns.

*gives Rooi the evil eye* I wonder if you'd have thought of that before you helped me out with my refit plans.

Hey! Another turret farm!!!

We want more! We want more!

Gin Palace for President!


Seriously, does SS take into account the number of times the structure deck is penetrated and the area covered by the openings in it?

Consider this design blackmail, of course I've thought of other developments on the same hull...

Most likely another 190mm CA will take the slipway before the last Belgrano anyway.

Blackmail? Maybe for the smaller nations hoping to retain a treaty and the certain level of parity it allows.

Soyuz Nerushimmy is blackmail...

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Seriously, does SS take into account the number of times the structure deck is penetrated and the area covered by the openings in it?

Probably. I know in SS3b1 the recoil would be fairly close to 1, if not over.

Quoted

*gives Rooi the evil eye* I wonder if you'd have thought of that before you helped me out with my refit plans.

Yes I would. I know Mogami longer than your refit plans.

Quoted

Soyuz Nerushimmy is blackmail...

Nah. That one is just a friendly warning.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
, of course I've thought of other developments on the same hull...

Polaris tubes as with Garibaldi?

Blackmail would be the 17 inch guns on non-treaty battleships in service by the middle of 1939 or 1940.